Athée Canadien
Why is everyone stupid except me?
By Crommunist
From time to time, I find intense gratification when people whose opinions I respect overlap with mine. An author or musician or public figure who I admire will come out and say something that I agree with completely. Obviously it’s no accident that the people I admire will largely share my opinions on things, but when someone like John Legend makes a salient point about race, or Roger Ebert goes outside of film critique to say something I’m down with, I get a little tingle in my lobes.
So you can understand how depressing it is to see the nearly-universal negative reaction to CFI’s statement about the “Ground Zero Mosque” – truly there has never been a dumber name. I don’t need to re-hash either the content of the complaint, nor summarize the reactions to it. You can just scroll down the page and see it all over this site (or just click here). I’m fine with the people here at Canadian Atheist disagreeing with me – I don’t think we’ve agreed on anything yet. It seems that this site is structured primarily as an exercise in opposing viewpoints; a frustrating but I suppose ultimately useful exercise.
But Orac? Et tu, man?
I never thought I’d ever be aiming a heapin’ helpin’ of not-so-Respectful Insolence at the Center For Inquiry (CFI), one of the premier secularist organizations in existence, but yesterday I found in my e-mail a mind-meltingly moronic press release that came from an organization that should never, ever produce anything this mind-meltingly moronic.
I read Orac’s blog, Respectful Insolence daily. As someone who works in the field of health care, I find the discussion of alt-med woo and critique of medical studies interesting. Nothing puts a smirk on my face quite like reading another well-crafted takedown of this anti-vax loon or that homeopathic quack. That’s why this piece was such a let-down to me. For those of you who don’t want to read it, I’ll summarize it for you briefly:
Waah, waah, not all religious people are evil. Waah, waah, CFI is mean to the faithful. Waah, waah, you can’t condemn religion but stand up for religious freedom.
It’s a poorly-kept secret that the man behind Orac is a practicing Catholic Crommunist will present any old rumour he reads on the internet as though it were fact (sorry Orac :P). I will save any criticism of the level of compartmentalization and mental gymnastics it requires to be a well-published skeptic but also be a religious believer. There are authors on this site who fit that description who will probably do a more judicious (and polite) job of describing the intricacies of cognitive dissonance than I can. Most of the time, Orac doesn’t talk about religion, and his beliefs are not related in any way to his blogging. I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt here and assume that he’s not just griping because someone took a swat at him as a Christian [or not, as the case may be].
But he is parroting a largely vacuous argument that I see cropping up all over the place: that CFI’s statement equates religious people with terrorists. I read the statement after reading the reaction to it. I read it again, many times, looking for the sentence (or even the single word) that states that religious people are evil, or terrorists, or that adherents to a faith-based doctrine are going to blow stuff up. It isn’t there.
I am baffled again and again by the inability of people who I otherwise think are fairly intelligent to see the distinction between the idea and the person. I have a well-established hate-on for conservatism. I think it’s a largely unvarnished, un-nuanced, overly-simplistic philosophical doctrine that neglects to take into account very important information about the world, preferring instead to argue about what ought rather than what is. That being said, it is child’s play for me to be friends with a conservative person, by merely recognizing that my beef is with their ideas, not with them as a person. If they do something I disagree with, I say so, and we move on. Some of my close friends here in Vancouver are religious, some are alt-med, some are into supernatural woo-woo of all kinds. Big deal – we disagree, I say so, and we move on.
CFI’s statement was simply that – faith is a bad thing. Faith doesn’t make people good, but it is used as a justification for a great deal of evil. Respect for faith-based anything grants an undue amount of privilege to a philosophy that is basically “I believe in it, therefore it is so.” As a skeptic of any type, you simply must reject that kind of belief out of hand. It is faith that gives fuel and credibility to child-touching priests, to soul-sucking leeches like John Edward, and to terrorist groups. When we say that faith is something to be encouraged, we are granting implicit license to those actions that are based on faith – the good and the bad.
The CFI statement was a recognition of this. Faith spurred the terrorist attacks. Any encouragement of faith rather than reason is a betrayal of people who were the victims of this faith-based initiative. Does this mean that religious people are terrorists? Does CFI think that churches should be razed to the ground? Only in crazy-town, which is where these posts seem to be originating, based on a quick IP-check of those posting. What CFI has said is that the encouragement of faith is bad, not that people who have faith are bad; misguided, perhaps, or poorly-informed. You simply cannot deny that the most religiously-pious and rigidly faithful people who died on September 11th, 2001 were those hijacking the plane (well you can, but you’d be wrong). Building any monument to faith is granting prestige and license to all of the outcomes of faith, even the ones we deplore.
Now it will come as literally zero surprise to me when every other author here (and most of the readers) jump on my head about this. All I can say is go back and re-read the release. If you still disagree with me, say so, and we’ll move on.
| Print article | This entry was posted by Crommunist on August 31, 2010 at 9:00 am, and is filed under Critical Thinking, Religion, Skepticism. Follow any responses to this post through RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed. |
Comments are closed.
about 1 year ago
I agree with everything.
about 1 year ago
Hahaha, then I know I’m in trouble :P
about 1 year ago
I have found that 99% of religious people , people of faith , whatever you want to call them , when responding to an issueof a religious nature invariably respond with emotion rather than critical thinking . It just seems to go with the territory .
about 1 year ago
Could you link to the CFI statement which is being discussed, because it seems that the statement CFI currently has on their website 1) has been posted a day after Orac’s post and 2) has different content than what Orac is responding to.
about 1 year ago
In a fit of courage and honesty, CFI has taken down the original release. You can find it here.
about 1 year ago
Erasing evidence of a prior statement is courage and honesty? What next – are you going to say that Bush invaded Iraq in a fit of pacifism?
about 1 year ago
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=sarcasm
Here you go, pal.
about 1 year ago
You don’t get to use sarcasm here, not after your CFI apologetics. It doesn’t have the same effect. It’s as if A Modest Proposal were written by an English nationalist.
about 1 year ago
I’ll use sarcasm whenever I want. Especially considering, despite your repeated assertions to the otherwise, I’m not defending CFI. I’m pointing out that everyone who is rushing to damn them is completely misinterpreting the argument the statement makes. I don’t give two craps about CFI Trans, but I’m not going to jump on the train of fools who in their zeal to appear friendly to believers are twisting the statement to be something it isn’t.
about 1 year ago
Let’s say a black church got bombed. Would you call people writing against the bombing and what it represents “fools” with “zeal to appear friendly to believers”?
about 1 year ago
I guess it would depend on if their arguments were stupid or not.
This back-and forth circular argument bores me. You don’t agree with my assessment that CFI’s statement was misinterpreted. It’s painfully clear that you’re going to make this about me defending CFI rather than taking it as was intended (and repeatedly clarified), which was an identification that the argument against CFI’s statement is shoddy and poorly-constructed. You’re also apparently happy to repeatedly insinuate that I am a racist and a hypocrite, which I suppose is your right. I, for my part, am happy to put you in the big bin labeled “people who don’t like me” and go on with my life.
This is the part where you cry ‘projection’ and then claim a win.
about 1 year ago
I don’t think you’re a racist; I have no idea. I think you’re engaging in racism, which is not the same thing as being a racist. People with tolerant personalities sometimes commit racist acts. Maybe they have a rigid ideology that makes them oppose civil rights. Maybe they have a few blind spots.
about 1 year ago
Like LOL
about 1 year ago
Your swipe at Orac is really irrational, by about four orders of magnitude more than being religious. So is your claim that faith led to 9/11; I’ll just refer you to Justin Trottier’s point about the atheism-led-to-Stalin trope. It’s ironic that most of the religious legislation that CFI US fights against came out of paranoia about atheism leading to communism, the very same paranoia about Islam that CFI espouses.
It’s the ultimate double standard. The secular supporters of the mosque – Lindsay Beyerstein, Melody Hensley, Justin Trottier, probably also Derek Araujo and Austin Dacey – probably have said some irrational things. But I don’t see you say something like, “Justin believes men are the oppressed sex, and that makes him fundamentally irrational.” Maybe it’s because you agree with him, but then you’d have to pronounce Lindsay Beyerstein irrational for being a feminist…
Your defenses of CFI, like many others, just make CFI look worse. CFI’s no-new-houses-of-worship position is actually very similar to how American racists operate: instead of discriminatory laws, they pass ostensibly neutral laws that in practice target minorities. DuPage County in suburban Chicago in fact is trying to pass legislation banning new houses of worship: the local Christians and Jews already have all the churches and synagogues they need; it’s the Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists who’re looking to build new houses of worship.
Fortunately, it’s nothing that won’t be fixed by having Ronald Lindsay resign in disgrace and be replaced by a more enlightened person, who’s willing to engage in some amount of contrition instead of bigotry. Unfortunately, it’s unlikely to happen.
about 1 year ago
It’s like you just read the title of the post and decided you were going to demonstrate why it’s accurate…
“But I don’t see you say something like, “Justin believes men are the oppressed sex, and that makes him fundamentally irrational.””
You also don’t see me saying that religious people are fundamentally irrational, so your analogy is a straw man.
“DuPage County in suburban Chicago in fact is trying to pass legislation banning new houses of worship: the local Christians and Jews already have all the churches and synagogues they need; it’s the Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists who’re looking to build new houses of worship.”
Is that really your reading of the release, or are you just acting like a hyper-sensitive ninny? The point of the release, as far as my reading went, was that the question of whether a mosque was sensitive or appropriate ignores the larger question – is any encouragement of faith instead of reason appropriate?
Fortunately, this is nothing that won’t be fixed by you reading for comprehension, and being willing to think critically instead of comically dropping your monocle into your champagne glass and harumphing “Well, I never!”. Unfortunately, it’s unlikely to happen.
Also, can you show your work for the “four orders of magnitude”? :P
about 1 year ago
The only people who ever use words like hypersensitive are those who are hyposensitive.
about 1 year ago
Also allergists. And people who make Sensodyne toothpaste.
about 1 year ago
Right.
Just FYI: do not ever criticize people’s reading comprehension when, in the paragraph quoting them, you surgically remove key sentences like “Your defenses of CFI, like many others, just make CFI look worse.” I chose not to compare CFI to DuPage County until you started using DuPage County-style arguments. Believe it or not, people can read your articles and still not agree with you.
about 1 year ago
Yeah, when both the original statement, my response to it, and my follow-up comments are continually mis-stated and distorted, I’ll criticize the pervasive lack of reading comprehension. I didn’t surgically remove anything, your accusation of my “defending CFI” is inaccurate, so I left it off.
I’m happy for people to disagree with me. I’d prefer they not twist my words while they do it.
about 1 year ago
Nothing in your post suggests any sort of happiness about disagreement. Sorry.
My accusation was spot on. You were providing a counterargument against a criticism of CFI. That counts as defending CFI. Even in an article that otherwise attacks CFI, which yours doesn’t, it would be a defense.
about 1 year ago
What makes you think I’m a practicing Catholic? Seriously. Are you that clueless?
And, yes, you are defending CFI, your denials notwithstanding. Talk about mental gymnastics!
As for the original CFI statement requested by some of your readers, well, this is what it said:
The Center for Inquiry is troubled by the rhetoric of some of those protesting the proposed Islamic religious center and mosque near Ground Zero, and it especially deplores the growing politicization of the dispute. CFI also holds that the focus of the protests is too narrow; it would be inappropriate to build any new house of worship in the area immediately around Ground Zero, not just mosques. “The 9/11 attacks were an example of faith-based terrorism, and any institution that privileges faith above reason is an affront to those who were killed and injured in those attacks,” observes Ronald A. Lindsay, president and CEO of CFI.
CFI fully supports the free exercise of religion; protecting the rights of believers and nonbelievers is central to CFI’s mission. Accordingly, CFI endorses President Obama’s recent statement reminding the country that Muslim Americans enjoy the same rights as other Americans and should not be treated as second-class citizens.
Further, CFI laments the effort by some to turn the proposed Islamic religious center into a political issue. Government officials and candidates for office should not intervene in disputes over the alleged offensiveness of a place of worship. Such conduct violates the spirit, if not the letter, of the Establishment Clause. Government officials should not be deciding who is a “moderate” Muslim any more than they should be deciding who is a “moderate” Christian or Jew.
A number of private individuals have protested the proposed Islamic religious center. The tone and substance of these protests covers a wide range. Some protesting the Islamic center have raised legitimate questions, but to the extent the objections to the Islamic center mistakenly equate all Muslims with Muslim extremists, CFI condemns them.
CFI maintains that a mosque near Ground Zero, in and of itself, is no worse than a church, temple, or synagogue. It is undeniable that the 9/11 terrorists were inspired by their understanding of Islam, and that currently there are far more Islamic terrorists in the world than terrorists of other faiths, but the deeper threat confronting humanity is not confined to Islam. To the contrary, it is presented by all religions. Religious morality is based on faith and authority, with the authority often being a sacred text cobbled together long ago that readily lends itself to contradictory interpretations. The Bible and the Koran have been used to justify almost everything, from mass slaughter of those with other beliefs, to slavery, to oppression of women and gays and lesbians, to the throttling of scientific research—as evidenced by the recent halt to stem-cell research. Faith will continue to harm and kill, whether it is in Oklahoma City or New York City, until people stop basing their conduct on imaginary divine commands and accept their responsibility to reason together. To honor those killed by faith fanatics, Ground Zero and its immediate vicinity should be kept free of any newly constructed house of worship — of any religion.
(Google cache of burning CFI stupid:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:zSpZoP-LingJ:www.centerforinquiry.net/news/cfi_releases_statement_in_response_to_the_proposed_islamic_religious_center+http://www.centerforinquiry.net/news/cfi_releases_statement_in_response_to_the_proposed_islamic_religious_center/&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari)
about 1 year ago
I feel famous :)
Apparently I am that clueless. I was positive that I had read you were Catholic. My apologies for the mistake.
I do not share CFI’s stance on the community centre; my views have been posted on this site. I was not defending that stance, as it is one I do not share. However, the maelstrom of misinterpretation that followed it was not based on anything that CFI said, but on everyone’s reaction to what they thought it said. I’m of the impression that we should address poor argument regardless of the target or the speaker.
about 1 year ago
On the up side, now you’re like everyone else:)
about 1 year ago
Hahaha, hurray! I fit in!
about 1 year ago
Your link doesn’t work.
about 1 year ago
Fixed, with apologies
about 1 year ago
Ah.
So, what you’re saying seems to be that you disagree with all the attacks on Cordoba Center, but people shouldn’t criticze CFI for making the same arguments those other attackers are making. What?
about 1 year ago
A small digression into semantics here:
Where does the meaning in any piece of information lie but in the interpretation itself?
Is not what people “think” something means exactly what it does mean? We (humans) construct meaning from limited and necessarily finite descriptions based on the context of our experience and beliefs. Invariably we will interpret things differently. Your interpretation is no more valid than anyone else. Only the author himself can speak to it’s true intention. Argue the points presented individually, not in relation to the article.
Also, we should address ideas seperately from the characteristics of the speaker… but my sense of irony demands I point out that you have been directly responsible for about 80% of the ad hominem statements I’m seeing here (including the initial, completely unecissary mention of what you believed to be Orac’s religious persuasion) [no, 80% is not a quantified number, and no, your ad hominem tendancies do not invalidate your arguements either]
about 1 year ago
That was supposed to be a reply @ Crommunist “I feel famous :) …” but the server seems to have bunged it up.
about 1 year ago
Insult and ad hominem aren’t the same thing. I’ve looked over my post and the responses to it, I’m really not sure where you’re seeing the ad hominem statements, but that’s immaterial, as you’ve said. I mentioned Orac’s religion only to specifically say that it’s not relevant to the argument, lest I be accused of picking on him because of it. My objection was to the content of the argument, not the speaker thereof.
“Your interpretation is no more valid than anyone else’s” might sound like one of those things that is true, but it isn’t. If you wave at me and I assume that you are trying to cast an evil spell on me, that’s a wildly inaccurate interpretation, and is not “just as valid” as someone else’s that you are trying to greet me. The purpose of my post was to point out that the interpretation being drawn from CFI’s statement is based not on what is being said, but what people are assuming is being said.
That’s called reading something critically. You try to figure out what the speaker means, rather than just jumping on the train of your own assumptions and riding it to Nutbar Junction.
Also I wasn’t saying anything about the characteristics of the speaker. I was saying that a person’s specific beliefs can be evaluated separately from who they are as a person. Of course, since you interpreted it to mean something else, and “everyone’s interpretation is equally valid”, I’m going to surmise that your entire comment is about unicorns.
about 1 year ago
No, you’ve specifically brought up Orac’s putative religion to make a personal attack on him. It’s the equivalent of Ronald Reagan’s statement that he wouldn’t use his opponent’s youth and inexperience against him. And you, sir, are no Ronald Reagan.
about 1 year ago
*Sniff* I’m… not Reagan? You wound me deeply, sir. I doubt I shall ever recover from such a grievous insult, preferring instead to wither before the relentless onslaught of your witty barbs.
DERP!