Athée Canadien
My homeopathic overdose
By Crommunist
Note: This post violates two Canadian Atheist rules. First, it is a cross-post from my own blog. Second, it’s not really atheist per se. However, it does concern the Vancouver skeptics, and thus I am putting it up anyway.
If you’re reading this, then I survived a deadly overdose on sleeping pills. It wasn’t my iron constitution, survival instincts or even the quick work of trained medical professionals that saved my life; no, it was the fact that I used homeopathic sleeping pills.
Many of you have probably heard of homeopathy, but don’t really know much about it – this is how they make money. Like Scientology, the explanation is so stupid that once you know about it you can’t believe anyone buys into it. Basically, homeopathy operates on the principle that “like cures like” – for example, an herb that causes fever symptoms is a good cure for fever. The secret is that the substance must be super dilute, and the more diluted it is, the stronger it becomes. Avogadro’s constant (6.02 x 10^23) describes the number of molecules present in a mole of the substance in question – there are, for example 6.02 x 10^23 molecules of O2 in 38 grams of oxygen gas. What this means is that if you dilute something past 23C (C is a number which denotes the number of 10X 100X dilutions a substance has undergone), there is essentially zero chance of even one molecule of active substance being present in the “remedy”. (Fred points this out: “23C would be 23 consecutive 1:100 dilutions. 23X would be 23 consecutuve 1:10 dilutions, as needed to pass Avogadro’s limit.”)
Many homeopathic drugs are diluted to 30, 100, even 1000C – a sphere of water the size of the entire universe wouldn’t even contain one molecule of the substance. Homeopaths counter this by saying that water has “memory”, and can “remember” what was diluted in it. How it distinguishes between the herbs you want and the thousands of animals that have peed in it, the rocks it has passed over, and the other homeopathic remedies that have been in the same water (more dilute, therefore much stronger) is a question for which an answer has never even been attempted.
For a better explanation of how homeopathy works, go to this website: http://www.howdoeshomeopathywork.com/
It’s no exaggeration to say that homeopathy is completely useless. It couldn’t possibly work without re-writing the entire understanding of chemistry and physics, developed over hundreds of years. Even still, it has been tested – it doesn’t work. While a handful of “studies” (no control group, no proper blinding, small sample size) have shown a small effect for homeopathy – an effect that is much smaller than the claims that are made by homeopaths – every single rigorously-controlled study has shown it to be no different than a placebo. You could give someone a glass of water, tell them it’s homeopathic, and get the exact same result as if you put a drop of onion juice in it then diluted it a billion times.
However, despite the fact that it can’t work, and that it doesn’twork, people still buy into homeopathy in a big way. Walking the streets of Vancouver, it’s easy to stumble across a “natural” pharmacy that sells herbs, vitamins, and of course homeopathic preparations. Homeopathy is a multi-billion dollar industry – essentially the largest legal scam ever perpetrated (aside from, perhaps, religion) – separating desperate people from their money one vial of water or bottle of sugar pills at a time.
What did I do?
On Wednesday, October 27th, I participated in a mass suicide bid along with a handful of other Vancouver skeptics, organized through CFI Vancouver. I went to Finlandia, a naturopathic pharmacy on Broadway, to procure myself some homeopathic sleeping pills. I presented myself to the person behind the counter as a person suffering from insomnia, and curious about homeopathy (which, I would imagine, is a fairly reasonable case study). Without hesitating, the naturopath behind the counter pulled down a bottle of Neurexan, described on the bottle as a “Homeopathic preparation for the treatment of sleeping problems”.
You’ll notice that the non-medicinal ingredients are sugar. Nothing else, just sugar. The suggested dose is 3 pills, so consuming the whole bottle would be about 16 doses of sleep meds.
As I would do with any new medication, I asked a few questions:
- As a larger person, sometimes I need a higher dosage.Response: It doesn’t matter if you’re 10 lbs or 1000 lbs, use the same dose.
- What happens if I miss the directions, or otherwise misuse the product? Response: If you miss a dose, just take a bunch extra.
- I’ve used sleeping pills before, and I woke up groggy.Response: Won’t happen with these.
- Is it possible to overdose? Response: You can’t overdose on homeopathy because it’s just energy.
If you go to a pharmacy and they tell you that the dose doesn’t matter, that you should just take a bunch extra if you miss the protocol, that there will be no adverse effects at all regardless of your previous medical experience, and that it’s impossible to overdose, make sure you haven’t stumbled into Bizarro world. Such advice from a real pharmacist would be recklessly irresponsible, which is why you get specific instructions when you buy medications.
I honestly don’t think that Jane (not her real name) was out to defraud me. I’m certain she believes that homeopathy works, as do her bosses. However, personal belief is not enough when you have someone coming in with a real medical problem. I might believe that punching you in the uterus will fix your infertility problem, but would you let me? Should you let me? Should you let your sister or wife or mother come to my uterus-punching clinic because she believes it too? No, what you’d likely do is demand some proof from me that it works – proof that you’d examine closely because of how implausible my “treatment” is.
While not the same as an uppercut to the babymaker, the bottle of pills cost me $18 – that’s some expensive sugar! On my way out of the pharmacy, I grabbed myself a copy of this little gem:
You saucy little minx – tell me how it’s the pharmaceutical companies that are defrauding me by selling me stuff that’s been shown to actually work. I’ll believe anything that you and your smoking bottle of pills tells me.
I met up with a group of CFI Vancouver skeptics in front of Vancouver General Hospital. They had all brought their own homeopathic concoctions, including a popular homeopathic flu medication, sleeping pills, arsenic pills and belladonna (the latter two being highly toxic when undiluted). All of these were available from places like Choices and Whole Foods – none of them were particularly cheap. At the appointed hour, we opened our bottles of pills and tossed back the entire thing.
To be clear, if you did this with sleeping pills that you could get as a prescription, or even over-the-counter things like Tylenol, cough medicine, antihistamines, pretty much anything you could get in a real pharmacy, you’d probably die. Even if you didn’t die, you’d be sick as a dog as the pharmaceuticals do what they do inside your body. Even if you didn’t get sick, you’d most assuredly feel something – high, woozy, drowsy, hyper,something. The most likely outcome of downing a whole bottle of sleeping pills is death.
What happened?
Nothing. Nothing happened at all. We stood around for an hour, waiting to feel something. Nothing happened.
What did we learn?
We are not the first group to perform this stunt – a group out of the UK called the 10:23 Campaign first did this on January 23, 2010 as a massive protest against Boots, a naturopathic pharmacy. Since then, the National Health Service (NHS) has called for the stoppage of funding for homeopathy with public money, doctors have petitioned the government to stop licensing homeopaths, and a great deal of light has been shone on this shadiest of practices.
Here in Vancouver, naturopaths are being given diagnostic and prescription privileges. People are flocking to places like Finlandia on the mistaken assumption that the stuff in the bottle does what it says. Homeopaths are banking on a combination of the scientific ignorance of the populace and the veneer of respectibility that accompanies being called a “doctor” to push placebo medicine to desperate people. They compound this by railing against the pharmaceutical companies and the government health regulators, stirring up hostility against the scientific community at large. In fact as a skeptic, it is almost inevitable that you will be accused of being a “Big Pharma Shill” when you bring up the fact that most “alternative medicines”don’t actually do anything (or at least they don’t do what they claim).
The predictable response from those who endorse “alternative” or “natural” medicines is to say “what is the harm? If people think it makes them feel better, why tell them otherwise?” I’ve dealt with this question before, which is to say that the truth is important if we are going to live in a society with other people and make decisions that affect each other. In this particular case though, there is a more tangible cost. This website lists cases of people who died or were seriously injured by belief in quack medicine. Obviously no treatment is perfect, but to convince people to forgo treatment that has a chance of working because you want to sell them something that doesn’t work is tantamount to abetting involuntary suicide.
Another tired trope is that homeopathy only works on some people. It’s quite the coincidence that none of the people who have tried the overdose or who have been observed in carefully designed clinical trials are the ones who it “works” for. The whole point of a study is to control for random differences between people, so that the only difference is the treatment you’re giving them. It would have to be the mother of all coincidences that nobody in these rigorous studies, nobody in our group, and nobody in the 400+ skeptics in the 10:23 campaign felt any effect in the slightest. It would have to be coincidence if it worked – but it doesn’t. The easiest explanation is that homeopathy is just water, with no more “medicine” in it than what comes out of the tap.
We were lucky as well to have the entire thing videotaped by CBC Marketplace as part of their exposé on Boiron, the largest manufacturer of homeopathy in Canada. The episode is due to air this Friday at 8 pm, so you should check it out. I’m not sure if I got on TV or not. Hopefully our merry band of skeptics can help convince people that spending any money on homeopathy is a complete and total waste, because it doesn’t do anything.
Incidentally, I slept pretty much the exact same as I always do that night. I woke up around 3:00 in the morning, rolled over and went back to sleep.
TL/DR: Homeopathy doesn’t work either in theory or in practice. Taking an entire bottle of pills doesn’t have any effect. Homeopaths are defrauding people and giving them sugar pills instead of real medicine.
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about 1 year ago
There’s no rule requiring solely atheist content here. The site is by and for atheists in Canada, but is not solely devoted to atheism in Canada. More topics, more discussion, more awesomeness.
about 1 year ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgHRWB6-k-Q
An interesting news report on the subject, well worth the 13 minutes.
about 1 year ago
Minor correction: 23C would be 23 consecutive 1:100 dilutions. 23X would be 23 consecutuve 1:10 dilutions, as needed to pass Avogadro’s limit.
about 1 year ago
Good point. Thanks!
about 1 year ago
Or rather, there’s no detectable difference in effect between taking an entire bottle of homeopathic pills or taking an entire bottle of sugar pills.
about 1 year ago
Pshh. No wonder there wasn’t any effect. Think about it, you took MORE homeopathic medicine. If you want to overdose, take much much LESS than prescribed.
about 1 year ago
I am a homeopath and between myself and my colleagues we help thousands of people in I’ll health. It’s sad that you are so incredibly ignorant and mid-educated on homeopathy. If you really were informed you would know that clinical trials are nearly impossible unless in epidemics because the symptoms are of an acute nature, and has over the last 200 years proven it’s efficacy in epidemics. In chronic disease homeopaths treats individuals and their unique experience of disease as opposed to a clinical drug trial, each patient with the same pathology gets a different remedy based on their symptoms. Good luck in your fight, our patients health speaks for itself.
about 1 year ago
[citation needed]
“clinical trials are nearly impossible” … aka moving goalposts / pure pseudoscience.
I’ll trust evidence and science-based medicine over witchcraft and sorcery.
about 1 year ago
You’re absolutely right, it does: http://www.whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html
Now, if only all homeopaths *honestly* tracked their patients health (and why patients stop showing up), we’d get an excellent illustration of the self-deception practiced by homeopaths.
about 1 year ago
Here’s an experimental design for a clinical trial that doesn’t require us to wait for an epidemic:
* Prepare a batch of homeopathic potion using whatever procedure you like, so long as it’s exactly repeatable.
* Prepare a batch of potion that is identical except that it *doesn’t* contain the active ingredient. This batch is the control for the experiment.
* Select any set of prominent, widely-known homeopathic experts you choose, who already have a reputation as homeopathic practitioners.
* Perform a randomised double-blind trial with each expert, where the expert must select which potion is homeopathic and which was prepared with no active ingredient at all. Repeat a large number of times with each expert.
* Publish the results, along with the names of the experts and how well each one of them was able to tell the homeopathic potion from the fake (control) potion.
In short: can the experts tell, using whatever method they think appropriate (without breaking the protocols of a clinical trial), the difference between a homeopathic potion and a fake?
Until that’s done, it’s pseudoscience. Put your reputation where your mouth is.
about 1 year ago
Hi there,
It is important to do thorough research before bashing something so hard that has helped to cure so many people.
Firstly- in your description of the preparations of Homeopathic remedies you fail to include the most important part- the succussion (essentially this is vigorous controlled shaking perfomed by machines in a controlled lab- at very high speeds). It is these succussions which allow the energy of the plant, animal product, or mineral to be imparted into the water (which is then transfered onto the sugar pellets).
Secondly- of course the “sleeping pills” did nothing in your case! You should have A. gone to see a classically trained Homeopath instead of self diagnosing.
and
B. only taken a remedy that your body needs! The remedies are very specific to individual symptoms and will only work if you are experiencing those particular symptoms (which you clearly weren’t in your experiment).
Although the idea of “energy medicine” may sound foreign to you, I urge you to consider Einstein’s equation E=mc2. He understood that everything is made up of energy- oscillating so quickly that it makes up solid objects we can see and touch. You cannot see or measure the active ingredients of these remedies precisely because they are energy. For a skeptic like yourself this may not be enough, so…the next time you have an ailment I urge you to be a patient at the Toronto School of Homeopathic Medicine’s Clinic:
http://www.homeopathy-canada.com/toronto-health-clinic.html
This will give you a much clearer understanding of what Homeopathy is truly about, and allow you to make a more informed decision about it.
You can’t knock it until you try it…THE PROPER WAY.
ps- Homeopathy works! I have seen profound results in myself, my family, and friends (but only under the supervision of a trained Homeopathic Practitioner). And it cannot be just a placebo effect because I have also seen amazing results in babies and animals.
about 1 year ago
As a masters student in physics, I’ve considered E=mc2, and it occurs to me that you haven’t and that your bastardizing scientific words like energy.
Energy is completely measurable – from the speed of your car (kinetic energy), to the temperature of a pot of water (thermal energy), to various forms of potential energy like gravitational and chemical energy. To say we “cannot see or measure the active ingredients of these remedies precisely because they are energy” is a lie. What you mean when you say energy is magic.
Double blind trials exist to cancel out the placebo effect (which has been shown in babies and animals see here and here). The plural of anecdote is not evidence, it’s anecdotes.
about 1 year ago
“Secondly- of course the “sleeping pills” did nothing in your case! You should have A. gone to see a classically trained Homeopath instead of self diagnosing.
and
B. only taken a remedy that your body needs! The remedies are very specific to individual symptoms and will only work if you are experiencing those particular symptoms (which you clearly weren’t in your experiment).”
Oh come on. They were awake and they wanted to sleep. That requires a special diagnosis now? As far as B goes the symptom was that they weren’t sleeping like they wanted to. Sleeping pills should put awake people to sleep should they not?
If the same group had done the same experiment with real, effective sleeping pills, there would have been a body count. There certainly would have been people sleeping.
I have actually read Einstein’s relativity theory. It was way over my head. I’m not a physicist. I don’t recall how that formula was related to oscillations though. Why don’t you explain to us why that formula needs to be considered because I do not think it means what you think it means.
about 1 year ago
I do not have a masters degree in Physics and admit that the mechanism of action is still not yet understood in Homeopathy. That being said, as the founder Samuel Hahnemann (a former M.D.) documented over 200 years ago- the combination of dilutions and succussions of the plant/mineral/animal products has proven to increase the potency of the remedies in practice (however only if the remedy is indicated for the case symptoms).
After years of allopathic treatment, Homeopathy was what finally cured my migraines with only a few weeks dosage of a remedy. I continue to see these type of real results in clinic and these results make me believe in Homeopathy. I do seriously recommend for you to set up an appointment for an initial consultation at our school clinic (the prices are very low and it can be just for your own research/education). Our school is accredited and approved by the Accreditation Commission for Homeopathic Education in North America (ACHENA) http://www.achena.org and it is a very professional, accepting, and calm environment. Only in such a way can you obtain a true appreciation of what Homeopathy is.
about 1 year ago
I’ve seen a guy in a cape saw a woman in half. I saw it WITH MY OWN EYES! Would you, therefore, allow me (as a trained saw practitioner) laterally bisect you?
The way that homeopathy “works” is quite well understood, as a matter of fact. The sucussions, oscillations, chakras, nanobubbles, and energy (by which you mean “magic”) are all secondary to the amazing power of confirmation bias. It’s quite remarkable. Hahnemann was an MD before that degree meant anything, and please don’t delude yourself into thinking that any of us are impressed by fancy degrees (most of us have them, and we know how much BS is involved).
It’s rather telling that you admonish the rest of us to learn how homeopathy works, and then turn around and say that you haven’t a clue yourself. Until you understand the scientific concepts of “proof” and “evidence”, please stop trying to bamboozle us with your grade-school understanding of relativistic physics.
about 1 year ago
Hahnemann was an MD before that degree meant anything, and please don’t delude yourself into thinking that any of us are impressed by fancy degrees (most of us have them, and we know how much BS is involved).
I think you’re being a little too dismissive here. Academic degrees do reflect time spent acquiring knowledge, and I’m sure Hahnemann learned some worthwhile things in the course of his medical studies. 18th century European medicine obviously had its limitations, but it was far from useless.
The unfortunate thing was that the limitations included a lack of the tools (clinical trials, and reasonably advanced knowledge of the chemistry and physics of solutions) needed to refute the homeopathic principle. We can’t really blame Hahnemann for getting enthusiastic about the idea, any more than we can blame Lamarck for getting enthusiastic about the inheritance of acquired characters. Hahnemann’s modern followers are another matter, of course.