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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Mere Atheism Isn&#8217;t Enough&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://canadianatheist.com/2012/10/18/mere-atheism-isnt-enough/</link>
	<description>Athée Canadien</description>
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		<title>By: Clare45</title>
		<link>http://canadianatheist.com/2012/10/18/mere-atheism-isnt-enough/#comment-15327</link>
		<dc:creator>Clare45</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canadianatheist.com/?p=9173#comment-15327</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tracy, I completely agree except for the bit about humanists being &quot;Godless Christians&quot;. Isn&#039;t that a contradiction in terms? Maybe some humanists -Paul Kurtz-see above- was one example of people who think that secular humanists can also be Christians, but I do not agree. At least in my local group, we are all definitely atheists, but we try not to discriminate between our fellow human beings on the basis of race, gender or sexual orientation, mental illness, IQ etc.  That does not make us particularly moral, but it is generally considered a good idea for the human race for it&#039;s survival and general well-being.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tracy, I completely agree except for the bit about humanists being &#8220;Godless Christians&#8221;. Isn&#8217;t that a contradiction in terms? Maybe some humanists -Paul Kurtz-see above- was one example of people who think that secular humanists can also be Christians, but I do not agree. At least in my local group, we are all definitely atheists, but we try not to discriminate between our fellow human beings on the basis of race, gender or sexual orientation, mental illness, IQ etc.  That does not make us particularly moral, but it is generally considered a good idea for the human race for it&#8217;s survival and general well-being.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy</title>
		<link>http://canadianatheist.com/2012/10/18/mere-atheism-isnt-enough/#comment-15317</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canadianatheist.com/?p=9173#comment-15317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think there a few wrong assumption in this article. Firstly, most atheist groups do not claim a &quot;higher morality&quot; than religious groups. There has been a trend in the atheist community towards Humanism. Humanists tend to simply be godless Christians with a soft spot for homosexuality. This is the type of atheist who claims a moral high-ground over religious people. I on the other hand think that morality is BS to begin with. We need to set societal objectives, then we need to makes rules that live up to those objectives. Morality should be a word we lose entirely, I dislike that word with a passion.

A second large flaw is this odd expectation for local atheist groups to have money to donate to various causes. The entire purpose of churches is to collect money, yes money, not souls!!!! And when churches do charity it&#039;s advertising, not selfless &quot;charity&quot;. Churches are sitting on huge amounts of money, and they spend it to sell their message... in order to acquire more money. So how on earth should little non local atheist groups compete with that, it&#039;s nonsense. A vast majority of local atheist groups do not require money from their membership, and operate with very small budgets. To expect us to make financial contributions to various causes is simply not rational. 
Instead, let&#039;s talk about volunteering time, that&#039;s where atheist organisations can make our mark.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there a few wrong assumption in this article. Firstly, most atheist groups do not claim a &#8220;higher morality&#8221; than religious groups. There has been a trend in the atheist community towards Humanism. Humanists tend to simply be godless Christians with a soft spot for homosexuality. This is the type of atheist who claims a moral high-ground over religious people. I on the other hand think that morality is BS to begin with. We need to set societal objectives, then we need to makes rules that live up to those objectives. Morality should be a word we lose entirely, I dislike that word with a passion.</p>
<p>A second large flaw is this odd expectation for local atheist groups to have money to donate to various causes. The entire purpose of churches is to collect money, yes money, not souls!!!! And when churches do charity it&#8217;s advertising, not selfless &#8220;charity&#8221;. Churches are sitting on huge amounts of money, and they spend it to sell their message&#8230; in order to acquire more money. So how on earth should little non local atheist groups compete with that, it&#8217;s nonsense. A vast majority of local atheist groups do not require money from their membership, and operate with very small budgets. To expect us to make financial contributions to various causes is simply not rational.<br />
Instead, let&#8217;s talk about volunteering time, that&#8217;s where atheist organisations can make our mark.</p>
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		<title>By: Clare45</title>
		<link>http://canadianatheist.com/2012/10/18/mere-atheism-isnt-enough/#comment-15250</link>
		<dc:creator>Clare45</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 19:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canadianatheist.com/?p=9173#comment-15250</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am a bit wary of organised charities in general, as there have been numerous examples of dishonest bookkeeping and other fraudulent events. Many large charities take a big cut &quot;for administration&quot;. I prefer to help people in need directly. There are also projects that are more directly related to atheism such as the clergy project www.clergyproject.org and secular therapists which helps people who have just left or are about to leave their churches and therefore their support systems.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a bit wary of organised charities in general, as there have been numerous examples of dishonest bookkeeping and other fraudulent events. Many large charities take a big cut &#8220;for administration&#8221;. I prefer to help people in need directly. There are also projects that are more directly related to atheism such as the clergy project <a href="http://www.clergyproject.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.clergyproject.org</a> and secular therapists which helps people who have just left or are about to leave their churches and therefore their support systems.</p>
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		<title>By: Theo Bromine</title>
		<link>http://canadianatheist.com/2012/10/18/mere-atheism-isnt-enough/#comment-15246</link>
		<dc:creator>Theo Bromine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 18:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canadianatheist.com/?p=9173#comment-15246</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First question:  Is charity work done by atheists &quot;atheist charity work&quot;?  Case in point: Last year, the America Cancer Society refused a $500 000 donation from the Foundation Beyond Belief.  So the FBB partnered with the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society, and this year, CFI and other godless organization and individuals across North America participated in the LLS&#039;s &quot;Light the Night&quot; fundraising campaign.  

Second question:  Is there anything inherent to being an atheist that stops one from being a caring person and decent human being?  Many religious people would assert this, and most atheists would object.  

I do agree that being an atheist doesn&#039;t entail any equivalent of religious obligation.  But religious people do their best to demonize us and claim that the world would fall apart but for all the good works being done by religions.  And I think that being a human being entails a sense of responsibility to help out other human beings - no edicts from God required.  Beyond that, atheists perhaps should feel a greater sense of urgency to put things right in the material world since there&#039;s no heaven, hell, or eternal karma to fix things up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First question:  Is charity work done by atheists &#8220;atheist charity work&#8221;?  Case in point: Last year, the America Cancer Society refused a $500 000 donation from the Foundation Beyond Belief.  So the FBB partnered with the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society, and this year, CFI and other godless organization and individuals across North America participated in the LLS&#8217;s &#8220;Light the Night&#8221; fundraising campaign.  </p>
<p>Second question:  Is there anything inherent to being an atheist that stops one from being a caring person and decent human being?  Many religious people would assert this, and most atheists would object.  </p>
<p>I do agree that being an atheist doesn&#8217;t entail any equivalent of religious obligation.  But religious people do their best to demonize us and claim that the world would fall apart but for all the good works being done by religions.  And I think that being a human being entails a sense of responsibility to help out other human beings &#8211; no edicts from God required.  Beyond that, atheists perhaps should feel a greater sense of urgency to put things right in the material world since there&#8217;s no heaven, hell, or eternal karma to fix things up.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://canadianatheist.com/2012/10/18/mere-atheism-isnt-enough/#comment-15203</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 06:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canadianatheist.com/?p=9173#comment-15203</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have no problem with people who want to do &#039;atheist charity&#039; work. If you feel it is necessary for you to do, do it. I actually participate on occasion in exactly that sort of thing, but this self-righteous demand that I should be doing X... is just silly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no problem with people who want to do &#8216;atheist charity&#8217; work. If you feel it is necessary for you to do, do it. I actually participate on occasion in exactly that sort of thing, but this self-righteous demand that I should be doing X&#8230; is just silly.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://canadianatheist.com/2012/10/18/mere-atheism-isnt-enough/#comment-15197</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 04:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canadianatheist.com/?p=9173#comment-15197</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Regarding Gillian&#039;s Place, I looked at their web site.  Given the Great Atheism Flame-Wars of 2012, I&#039;d be more inclined to help broader organizations.  Based on their website, it appears that Gillian&#039;s Place provides no service to men, with no explanation.  While Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics indicate men suffer both physical and psychological spousal abuse at essentially the same rates as women, Gillian&#039;s Place doesn&#039;t serve them, nor does it clearly link to resources for men (gay or straight) who are victims, nor do they clearly link to resources for abusers (of either sex) who want help with things like anger management or alcoholism.  I could find no mention of what transgender men and women might expect if they seek help there.  There may be good reasons for Gillian&#039;s Place to discriminate, but at a minimum, shouldn&#039;t they direct men in the same situation to resources appropriate to them?  (Do they even exist?).

As for atheism, there are significant challenges facing us. There is plenty of work to be done, to support ourselves, each other, to promote unbelief (those of us who think that&#039;s a good idea), to protect our right to blaspheme, and to get our governments here and around the world to treat us with the respect we&#039;re due as citizens and humans.  We&#039;re really still finding each other, so it&#039;s early.

But regardless of all that I just wrote, I do agree with LaFleche and Veronica that it is in atheist groups&#039; interest to be seen doing helpful things in the community, explicitly in the name of atheism (or atheist humanism, if you prefer).  It&#039;s not that &quot;the time has come&quot;.  It was appropriate yesterday, and it will still be there tomorrow if we don&#039;t do it today.  It&#039;s just that there are significant benefits to this, both to vulnerable populations and to ourselves.  And I disagree with Joe.  Perhaps where he lives, there&#039;s luxury of choice.  Where I live, depending on what a person needs, they have no choice but to go to a religious charity.  There is certainly value in freeing vulnerable populations from religious charities.  If someone in your family was harmed by such charity, you know.

In Austin and Dallas-Ft.Worth, Atheists Helping the Homeless make an impact by providing toiletries to homeless people.  This might be the sort of activity which could be duplicated in Canada.  Rather than latching on to someone else&#039;s thing, they have filled a need that wasn&#039;t being adequately addressed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Gillian&#8217;s Place, I looked at their web site.  Given the Great Atheism Flame-Wars of 2012, I&#8217;d be more inclined to help broader organizations.  Based on their website, it appears that Gillian&#8217;s Place provides no service to men, with no explanation.  While Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics indicate men suffer both physical and psychological spousal abuse at essentially the same rates as women, Gillian&#8217;s Place doesn&#8217;t serve them, nor does it clearly link to resources for men (gay or straight) who are victims, nor do they clearly link to resources for abusers (of either sex) who want help with things like anger management or alcoholism.  I could find no mention of what transgender men and women might expect if they seek help there.  There may be good reasons for Gillian&#8217;s Place to discriminate, but at a minimum, shouldn&#8217;t they direct men in the same situation to resources appropriate to them?  (Do they even exist?).</p>
<p>As for atheism, there are significant challenges facing us. There is plenty of work to be done, to support ourselves, each other, to promote unbelief (those of us who think that&#8217;s a good idea), to protect our right to blaspheme, and to get our governments here and around the world to treat us with the respect we&#8217;re due as citizens and humans.  We&#8217;re really still finding each other, so it&#8217;s early.</p>
<p>But regardless of all that I just wrote, I do agree with LaFleche and Veronica that it is in atheist groups&#8217; interest to be seen doing helpful things in the community, explicitly in the name of atheism (or atheist humanism, if you prefer).  It&#8217;s not that &#8220;the time has come&#8221;.  It was appropriate yesterday, and it will still be there tomorrow if we don&#8217;t do it today.  It&#8217;s just that there are significant benefits to this, both to vulnerable populations and to ourselves.  And I disagree with Joe.  Perhaps where he lives, there&#8217;s luxury of choice.  Where I live, depending on what a person needs, they have no choice but to go to a religious charity.  There is certainly value in freeing vulnerable populations from religious charities.  If someone in your family was harmed by such charity, you know.</p>
<p>In Austin and Dallas-Ft.Worth, Atheists Helping the Homeless make an impact by providing toiletries to homeless people.  This might be the sort of activity which could be duplicated in Canada.  Rather than latching on to someone else&#8217;s thing, they have filled a need that wasn&#8217;t being adequately addressed.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://canadianatheist.com/2012/10/18/mere-atheism-isnt-enough/#comment-15196</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 01:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canadianatheist.com/?p=9173#comment-15196</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So... people weren&#039;t interested in &#039;his cause&#039;... so therefore...

No. 

That is completely anecdotal. This has been something I&#039;ve run into quite a lot, and it is annoying. I&#039;m not part of an atheist church, so other atheists don&#039;t get to tell me what should be important to me. 

We don&#039;t need a bragging atheist banner that says we care. If some people want to do that... for causes they care about, that is up to them. Enjoy.

But don&#039;t tell me what I should be doing with my time, or how I should be supporting causes. I see no value in reinventing every charity wheel with an atheist angle. There are plenty of nominally secular organizations that do good work, that I am happy to support, even without the atheist label. And there are plenty of good causes, I just don&#039;t have time for, or others I prefer to focus my attention on.

I&#039;m all for encouraging people... believers and otherwise... to help out in their community, but I&#039;m not interested in any loyalty or morality tests. Atheism is enough for me, sometimes my other interests intersect with atheism, sometimes not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So&#8230; people weren&#8217;t interested in &#8216;his cause&#8217;&#8230; so therefore&#8230;</p>
<p>No. </p>
<p>That is completely anecdotal. This has been something I&#8217;ve run into quite a lot, and it is annoying. I&#8217;m not part of an atheist church, so other atheists don&#8217;t get to tell me what should be important to me. </p>
<p>We don&#8217;t need a bragging atheist banner that says we care. If some people want to do that&#8230; for causes they care about, that is up to them. Enjoy.</p>
<p>But don&#8217;t tell me what I should be doing with my time, or how I should be supporting causes. I see no value in reinventing every charity wheel with an atheist angle. There are plenty of nominally secular organizations that do good work, that I am happy to support, even without the atheist label. And there are plenty of good causes, I just don&#8217;t have time for, or others I prefer to focus my attention on.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for encouraging people&#8230; believers and otherwise&#8230; to help out in their community, but I&#8217;m not interested in any loyalty or morality tests. Atheism is enough for me, sometimes my other interests intersect with atheism, sometimes not.</p>
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		<title>By: thesauros</title>
		<link>http://canadianatheist.com/2012/10/18/mere-atheism-isnt-enough/#comment-15191</link>
		<dc:creator>thesauros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canadianatheist.com/?p=9173#comment-15191</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s nothing quite like leaving organised religion because it tells you what to do, only to come under organised atheism and have it tell you what to do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s nothing quite like leaving organised religion because it tells you what to do, only to come under organised atheism and have it tell you what to do.</p>
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