Athée Canadien
Personal Story
Fear is the mindkiller
Sep 3rd
I’m older than the other folks here at Canadian Atheist, so my perspective can be a bit different. I remember a Y2K job I had once. I was subcontracted to a government ministry. There was lots to do, since at the time no one knew what would happen when the clock ticked over. Maybe it was hype, but people were worried.
Then it came and went, and people thought how silly they had been. I got a better job, and moved on. But then the Dotcom bubble burst, contracts dried up, and those into tech stocks lost everything.
I ended up relegated to temp work, but you fall down, you get back up, dust yourself off, and keep going.
One of the jobs I had was working in an office building downtown. The work was dull, but the people were nice. We had a West Indian lady manager, another woman with a thick Eastern European accent, a cute girl from Dubai, a no nonsense Caribbean girl, and the baldest, gayest, Jewish guy, I ever met.
This particular morning was like any other, coffee, small talk, gossip, gay guy on the phone with his partner…
Someone mentioned a plane hitting a building somewhere. We were on the 22nd floor, hahah. No, really. Dumb pilot.
Mental image: plane with propeller bouncing, all cartoony, off a building.
Gay guy gets off the phone, babbling about a plane. Yeah, yeah, we heard about that, already.
“No, there were two planes.”
I’m not sure I can accurately describe the look in his eyes, but it was a mirror of what I felt, numb fear. I was a child near the end of the cold war, and he was older than me. The childhood fear of how everything can change radically, and horribly, was what I felt.
Caribbean girl, getting off her phone, mentions a TV set located on a lower floor, people are down there already. We had a service desk, so I volunteer to hold down the fort, while the others check it out.
Now, I’m a bit of a news junkie, I know how CNN works, big story, few details, lots of talking heads, same details over and over. No twitter or youtube yet. And two planes.
So, I’m in the office alone, and I figure I’ll check the news sites. CNN, timed out, Toronto Star, timed out, over and over, all the news sites I can think of, timed out.
The internet is down.
I eventually got the details second hand when they came back, about 20 minutes later. Not a lot of talking after that, and we got sent home before noon with the rest of the downtown workers in the city. Sent home, like when a really bad snow storm hits.
I didn’t watch the news for the next couple of days, live news is always frustratingly incomplete. But more details filtered through at work… planes diverted to Canadian airports, the entire USA becoming a no fly zone…indefinitely, friends of mine driving rental cars home from business trips, all the hijackers were Muslims, more hijacked planes, the pentagon, Iran and Syria acknowledge the American right to vengeance, British commandos dropped into Afghanistan, and the Taliban government refuses to turn over any terror suspects, or even ask them to leave their country. Not giving an inch.
Nothing much was happening a month later. Even neocon Dubya seemed at a loss for anything but rhetoric. Was this going to be another Bush desert war, or the beginning of something bigger?
Very soon though, NATO was at war, nothing cold about it.
Six months later I was in a bar after work, with a Filipino friend. The tables were small and it was a bit cramped. We started talking with this couple who were next to us; a young English guy, and his lady-friend, a girl from Wisconsin.
Unsurprisingly, the conversation turned to world politics, I think we were all curious about the variety of points of view that might be present.
It was a good mix, but as the conversation shifted to 9/11, our female companion began using a napkin to wipe tears from her eyes. She continued to talk though, and no one mentioned the tears. The four of us stayed talking until the bar closed.
That is almost nine years ago, and I’m getting old. I remember Challenger and Columbia, and where I was when Diana died. And I remember the gallows humor that followed all of these. 9/11 took longer to get to the jokes, and in some ways I still don’t think we are there yet, but the wars continue, pullout or not. Maybe after that is all over.
More recently I attended an SSA conference. Young people are so earnest, and free of baggage. I even made some ‘facebook friends’, and one of them had this to say about the “Terror Mosque” issue:
If it would have been allowed in NY before 9/11, it should be allowed now.
And I agree.
Our standards for property rights and religious freedom shouldn’t change because of 9/11. But I also know that for many Americans, many people, 9/11 changed everything. And I know how they feel.
“No, there were two planes.”
Still as clear as yesterday.
Hello From China!
Sep 1st
I’ve been in China for about 10 days now. While facebook and BBC are blocked our blog isn’t (yet..hehe)! So I’m happy to be doing a live update instead of relying on a scheduled one. I will post some pictures and come back with some interesting stories about religion in China or at least some entertaining pictures of me at the Great Wall and the Terracotta Army.
We’ve been learning a lot about religion while we’re here. While I still don’t know a ton about it John summed up some of it nicely in his last post. While the state is atheist (because of their “communism”…uh huh) people are still religious and superstitious in the wrong ways. I’ve heard stories about people believing they have a hex on them and all these strange things. An even bigger part of the problem with religion in China is that people who are religious often get put into jail… (this is all anecdotal). I was working at a call center and there was a guy there handing out all this information about different religions that had been suppressed by the Chinese government. One that is pretty popular is the Falun Gong.
I’ve heard different things about the Falun Gong. Some people really support them and want the government to get off their back. But some people I’ve talked to have said they are a crazy cult that takes all your possessions and money. Sort of like Scientology, I guess. On the outside it seems almost harmless and sort of “good for the soul”… but once you’re in it eats you alive. John’s father has told us that the stories are really really over blown, though.
Most of the tourist places that we visit have a lot of religious history to them… mostly Buddhist. (A few day ago we were somewhere where a bit of the Buddha’s finger was hanging out.) But Christianity is leaving its mark around the country, too. I was sort of surprised to see a big western style church with a big cross on the top of it while coming into Shanghai. A big difference is that the catholics here don’t want to be associated with the Vatican… they want their own Catholicism. I haven’t really figured out how big the tension is about that yet, but I plan on sticking my nose into it a bit further in the days to come. I’ve also run into a couple mormon (I think) missionaries. I heard them speaking pretty solid Chinese to a few workers on the street. Gotta give them credit for learning a freaking hard language just to get their message out, I guess.
Anyway, just a hello from across the world! Keep Canada wonderful for me.
Crommunist says hello
Aug 24th
The fine folks here at Canadian Atheist have kindly invited me to be a contributor here. I thought I would tell you a bit about myself. I was born in Vancouver, lived in the interior for a few years, then moved out to Ontario. I lived in various places around southern, western and eastern Ontario before moving back to Vancouver to live and work.
In addition to writing skeptically about religion, free speech, civil rights, women’s rights and politics, I’m interested in (obsessed with would be a more accurate term) race and racial issues. Most of what I write here at Canadian Atheist will be primarily concerned with religion, free speech and civil rights, with my more personal writings going up on my own blog, The Crommunist Manifesto.
I’m looking forward to being part of the team here at Canadian Atheist, and to hearing your feedback.
Struggling With Christianity: Why I Believe
Aug 19th
In my last post of this series I hope I made it clear that my parents did not force religion onto us. We had to go when we were younger, but when we were teenagers it was entirely up to us if we wanted to continue or not. Any conditioning I may have then is not the fault of my parents. If anyone can be blamed it would be the Baptist Church, however I’m not even sure if they’re the right ones to be pinning it on. The only person to blame is myself. When I went gung-ho-for-Jesus for a couple of years I made it very very clear to myself that anything other than what I was believing was very wrong and would end with me in Hell for all eternity. Although I think the Christianity that I embrace now is one that would still put a Baptist in Hell.
So if the guilt and conditioning only comes from myself, why don’t I just shake it off and move on?
- I will feel guilty: You can tell me that there is nothing to feel guilty about until you’re blue in the face – but I still do. This guilt goes pretty deep, too and I can feel it effecting my mood and performance in my day-to-day life. So I have to ask myself, is it really worth it? If my decision to believe in God changed my daily schedule, made me be a different person or changed my morals to something less desirable then I could understand why it might be important for me to continue to fight with it. However, in my church you can believe what you want – you can make religion work for you. So my options are a) feel guilty for not believing in God and feel that all day everyday or b) just give into that temptation to believe in God and keep on living. I feel like I am pretty secure in who I am (morally and ethically) that believing in God doesn’t really change anything. I would rather not feel guilty.
- I like believing in a God: Believing that there is some sort of universal force out there is really comforting and makes me feel really connected with the world and people around me. This obviously makes it harder to fight the guilt, too. I know that believing in a God is 100% irrational, I recognize that – so don’t try and argue me out of this with “ration and reason”. But… sometimes it just feels right and makes me feel more at ease with the world. And as far as I’m concerned – most emotional responses are irrational in most cases, so what is one more irrational emotional response going to hurt?
- The little things: It helps me feel/deal with a lot of things such as comfort, death, chaos, personal acceptance and community.
- I know have an angel: I have a guardian angel watching over me at all time. I can feel him there, and I know I’m safe….
Okay, I’m lying about #4, but #1 and #2 are pretty much the solid reasons why I believe. #3 is a list of things that I will deal with in separate posts, but they are minor things keeping me connected to my belief system.
So I’m not one of those people who believes in God because I feel like the bible is infallible, that the earth was created by a creator or that thinks God is intervening in our daily lives so we need to pray like 80 times every hour, or whatever. Religion has been a major part for pretty much every single civilization that ever existed on Earth. Religion has helped to bring people together, to answer questions and to bring comfort to people. If that religion is not being forced onto other people, is not harmful and is helping people deal with their lives and be more productive, what’s the problem? That’s why I still believing in God – because I don’t see it as a problem.
Arranged Marriage
Aug 14th
I’m in Guelph, Ontario visiting my mom right now before I head off to China for a few weeks on vacation. On the bus ride from Toronto I sat with a girl I had known pretty well back in high school.
Then: She was seriously well liked by most people and was dating a stone cold fox. She was wonderfully beautiful, on the student council and the prom committee. She was the valedictorian for her graduating class and was set to go off to one of Canada’s top schools for pre-med. She spoke three languages fluently and always had the greatest outlook on things. When a young boy was killed at our school they had her give a presentation to all the homeroom classes in his grade because she knew just what to say.
Now: I asked her how she’s been, and she started to cry. She told me that seeing me reminded her of high school and when she used to be happy. She looked tired, worn out and 10 years older than she actually is. She said she had to drop out of university and marry a “gross old man” (her words), who is 14 years older than her and who she has had 2 children with, so far. She told me she is only allowed to speak her husband’s language at home, is not allowed to have her own bank card, not allowed to pick out her own clothes and not allowed to listen to music.
I wanted to know more, but she wanted to talk about high school so that she could remember it all. I asked her why she didn’t just leave – she didn’t really seem to have an answer.
Part of me knows how horrible this is. It is so tragic that women’s parents allow their daughters to be treated in these ways and actually set their daughters up with these kinds of men. It is horrible that the culture allows for this sort of thing to be normalized. On the other hand, I know this girl and I know that she isn’t oblivious to Canadian culture and the plethora of other options that await her… She could leave and be happy. It would piss her parents off, but she would be living a better life. Sure, she might get some student debt and have to eat Kraft Dinner for 3 years – but she’d be happy. I know it is harder, now that kids are involved… but I am really surprised that a smart and confident young woman allowed herself to get trapped into that kind of mess. This is one, of many examples, about why secularist groups should be closely aligning ourselves with feminist groups.
I guess a big answer to this is honour killings… I don’t know if her parents are the kind that would do this, but you never know… As if arranged marriages aren’t archaic enough – but killing to preserve your honour?! That seems so ancient and ridiculous. It is a prime example of religion mutating morality and rationality to a disgustingly dangerous point.
“But… you’re a christian”
Aug 11th
Here is an example of why a Christian might be interested in working beside atheist groups. Normally I protect the identity of people when I do public posts, but … I’m not going to do this guy the favour. This is a conversation that happened with a guy on facebook after I invited everyone to join the Canadian Atheist fan page.
Ronald Eck 10 August at 05:00
You have alot of nerve wriing to me with your athiesm. Who do you think you are anyway…you keep your athiesm…I will keep my go
Katie Kish 10 August at 10:39
Hi Ronald,
I am christian, I just believe in rights and “free to be you and me” for all. I work with many atheist groups because atheists face a lot of unwarranted bigotry and I believe in separation of church and state.
may the peace of christ be with you always. [I always say this when playing the self-righteous christian card]
Ronald Eck 10 August at 11:14
I study the universe and its works…I have little time to discuss athiesm in any godless form…to me it is their life and they live it what ever way they wish, And when the time arrives in the next plaine they will pay the price dearly. They are an evil breed and best let alone. That is my opinion on the subject
Ronald Eck 10 August at 11:17
They mock god, slander god, make fun of god, and I down gradecme for believing in god and that is the foundation of my disgust for them.
Katie Kish 10 August at 16:17
“They”…do, eh? Sorry to hear you lump an entire group of people all together like this.
I don’t discuss atheism, I also don’t agree with them. But I defend their right not to be persecuted, insulted or silenced. Being raised differently than me certainly does not make someone evil. I am so saddened to hear words like this come from a believers mouth.
My God is one of love and understanding.
Take care.
Ronald Eck 10 August at 16:41
Our god does not condone the evil of athiest and godless paracites whom come to me and mock him…they are the agitaterss,, they are the blaphemers, they are the ones that say to me that hippy inthe sky, and annpounce the rhetoric, laughing AT THE CHURCH…THEY SAy to me they will stab with a knife all the christian priests, they say they burn churches down, they say they urinate on the cross, they say tyhey burn tyhe bibbles…and do you want to hear more?????????? Those ugly animals as they are. these are the athiestic animals you say you try to understand…These are the paracites that had harrassed me and mocked god and challenged me to prove his existance. But when I respond if they can prove there is no god, they do not reply and are mute.
Katie Kish 10 August at 16:47
Do not lump me into your definition of “our god”.
You can’t prove a negative, that’s basic knowledge.
Please stop messaging me, the things you say are absolutely horrible and hateful.
Ronald Eck 10 August at 16:48
They say to me why I believe in that bullshit…and why I believe in christiananity whenit is all nonscence…they say I am a fool to believe in a god that does not exist and use the foulest language imagined yes…yes…that is whiy i dispise the gpodless provokers and I always will. I study the universe and itsd works, I am recieving data on the magesty of the stars, and I take notes with data after observing through the telescopes. I try to understand the fundamental barriers of the interstellar space, the conglo9meration of the cosmic spread, and the study into the lonely gulfs of space, and I do realize it all was created by god. And they laugh….no I cannot ever have anything to do with that evil mockery of god……and niether should you because it will do no good, and they think you are an athiest also. good luck Katie Kish
Ronald Eck 10 August at 16:51
I am telling you what they say to me…on facebook…they say those things to me and I am only repeating it to you
Katie Kish 10 August at 16:52
Please stop messaging me.
Just like atheists aren’t all assholes, christians aren’t all assholes, either. All us non-assholes need to work together to bring down all the assholes.
Struggling With Christianity: Growing Up
Aug 9th
A number of people are surprised to find out that I identify as Christian. (They are less surprised when they find out I’m a member of the United Church of Canada, which some would hardly classify as any real kind of Christianity, in some cases.) It’s not even like I identify as a “secular Christian” like some identify as “secular Jews”… no, I believe in a ‘God’ (we’ll leave that for another day). I am otherwise a completely rational person, and recognize this belief in a ‘God’ as being irrational, so why haven’t I denounced it all? It’s a long story, one I’m going to tell in a few parts.
There are few relevant images in an image pic of "Bothwell", but there is this one of the Town Hall where the theater is named after my dad :)
My family wasn’t actually overly religious while I was growing up. We lived in a small town, Bothwell Ontario, in the middle of a corn field. In these sorts of places pretty much everyone goes to church. In a town of about 700 people (at the time) there was at least 4 churches that I can remember. We went to the United Church, where my brother took up the collection, my sister and I sang and we were always in the Christmas plays…we were good little church goers.
If you don’t know a lot about the United Church, then I’ll just give you this bit of information: It is insanely liberal, progressive and inclusive. They marry homosexual couples (if the minister wants to), they don’t say Jesus in church (if the minister doesn’t want to), they take the bible very metaphorically (as metaphorically as you want to) and they seriously love egg salad sandwiches…I’ve been to UCCs across the country and they all love their egg salad sandwiches. Very, very progressive and inclusive.
However, when I got a bit older I switched to the baptist church. I know, I know… but it’s where all my friends went. Also, my mom remarried after my dad died and my new step-dad was the minister of the United Church, so I didn’t like going and listening to him talk even more than I already had to at home. This is when I entered my crazy-christian phase, and where I think a lot of my internal conditioning about religion comes from.
The baptists are more fundamental than the United churches, not quite as fundamental as southern baptists in the States, but they’re pretty close. They’re about as fundamental as it gets in Canada. But because they’re fundamental, they’re also more “fun”. The christian rock, the big youth groups and the big gatherings. It was fun, interactive and a solid community of people. I think the most addictive things were the “Acquire the Fire” events. We would all board a big bus and shoot off to Hamilton for a weekend – I wrote about these trips back in 2006. I won’t reiterate too much of what happened when I was there but here are some interesting highlights:
An Acquire the Fire event
- The first day I was there they had me on my knees, crying my eyes out and grabbing Ron Luce’s feet asking him to save me. He dumped water on me and said we’d work on it.
- I made some sort of promise to stop watching TV for a year… something about there being too much wickedness on TV that was corrupting my brain.
- Any homosexual tendencies I thought I had were the devil in me. When I learned this at ATF it coincided with the first time I ever questioned/started to explore my sexuality. About three weeks before the event I had actually started dating my first girlfriend. When I got back from ATF I broke up with her immediately and didn’t talk to her for well over a year.
- I promised to be a virgin (even though I think at that point it was already too late… but I guess I promised to not do it again), to read my bible every day, to tell *all* my friends about God/Jesus (and I did…they hated me for a while), to be active with my church community and to forever be guilty if I questioned that any of this was wrong in anyway.
Crazy Christian Katie lasted for about two years (when I turned into Crazy Environmentalist Katie). I didn’t necessarily stop believing in God, but I stopped…caring as much. In first year university I started to question my belief, but only a little bit. I ended up posting somewhere that I was questioning my belief in God. I didn’t even say “I don’t believe in God”… I said something like “Sometimes I wonder if there is a God”. The camp that I had been working at for about 4 years and attending for at least 13 years called me up and told me that I wasn’t welcome back because of my views on God.
This pissed me off! I didn’t think anyone should be denied a job because of their views on God. So… This is when I joined my first atheist group and went through my “new atheism” phase of pure anger and hatred of religion. This anger dissipated over about a year but I stayed active in the atheist movement because I find secularism to be important and a sufficient use of my time. Only recently have I started to really think about my faith again. About six months ago I rationalized it all out and realized… I don’t think I can ever be an atheist for about 6 (give or take) different reasons that I will describe in this “mini-series” of sorts. Perhaps, in this den of atheists, the problems can be fixed. I’ve come very very close to denouncing my Christianity entirely, but it’s a lot harder than that. I’ll say “okay, this is it!” and then before I know it the guilt kicks me in the gut and the conditioning slaps me in the face.
I think my story is important for people in the atheism activism movement to keep in mind – moderates are our allies. I don’t think too many people would argue that I’ve hindered the atheist activist movement in Canada, in fact some might say that I’ve helped push it along. This coming year I’ll be involved with four different secular/atheist activist groups as either an executive or key volunteer while I continue to identify as Christian. So yeah, religion can be fucked up sometimes – but some of the religious folks are okay and will help atheists out.
In the next few posts I’ll talk about the reasons why I can’t denounce my faith… :)
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