There are Muslims who would argue that Islam requires them to kill the infidel, but it would be much harder to find a priest who argues that Catholicism requires him (or even permits him) to have sex with children.

I agree, but if you want a comparable example, we can look at birth control. The catholic church bans their use. Of course if you look at the birthrate in industrialized ‘catholic’ countries… you tend not to see 10 to 20 children per woman. Why? Because catholics are using birth control. I think this is an example of a situation where your average catholic contributes to a very destructive policy. Western catholics can ignore the ban, those in south america and africa have less ability to do so. And by not standing up to the church, they allow the problem to continue.

I blame them, in this case, because its an issue that affects them directly, it is the official policy of the church they belong to, and they do nothing to repudiate it.

but no interpretation of Catholicism actually endorses it as a matter of doctrine.

But there are christians who will use Leviticus as a justification for murdering gays. This is the exact problem.. with generalizing blame and guilt by association. Religious people play this same game too, only in reverse when they talk about ‘true christians’ or true…whatever.

there’s a need for Islam as a whole (the ummah, if you like) to persuade the rest of the world that this is a marginal perspective.

Eh, that seems like guilty until proven innocent to me. Jihad does not mean holywar… fatwa doesn’t mean death sentence. The fact is, most westerners are ignorant and focus on the crazies… that is a prejudice problem, not a doctrine problem. Atheists are often just as bad when they assume christian means fundamentalist.

Similarly, I think there’s enough diversity of strong atheist voices that anyone who assumes that all atheists think like Richard Dawkins can be safely accused of ignorance.

Well… I agree it is ignorant, but I get arguments like that from atheists too. Peter Singer said this, Sam Harris said that… so that is atheism…Urrgh

I agree with Dawkins much more often than I disagree

I’m not a Dawkins-hater.. but I do disagree with him in important areas… I find most religious people I meet in canada aren’t much different. Its where we disagree that creates problems.

I actually live..two houses away? From the remaining church that the closed churches were converged into. Although I have to say other than that they’re good neighbors, much better than the Calvinist church that played church bells every morning while I was trying to sleep after working night shift :(

I don’t think every single Muslim in the world should be tarred with the jihadist brush, any more than every atheist should be assumed to have the same antipathy to religion as Richard Dawkins. However, as long as some Muslims are claiming that their religion mandates holy slaughter, there’s a need for Islam as a whole (the ummah, if you like) to persuade the rest of the world that this is a marginal perspective. In my opinion the ummah has largely risen to this challenge as far as terrorism is concerned, although other problematic aspects of Islam (assaults on free speech, and a general social conservative sensibility) are another matter.

Similarly, I think there’s enough diversity of strong atheist voices that anyone who assumes that all atheists think like Richard Dawkins can be safely accused of ignorance. Still, if you’re hearing “Dawkins said x…” more often than you would like, part of the solution is probably to work even harder to draw attention to other strands of atheist thought. Personally, I agree with Dawkins much more often than I disagree with him, and I’m largely content with the assumption that he speaks for me.

There is a valid criticism to be made with regard to catholic priests… those who know whats happening and do nothing. Like that coach in the US. But Islam is much less hierarchical… the Pope is the ultimate authority in a way no living muslim is. I think criticizing the Pope is entirely valid.